Talk:Madeline/Controversy/@comment-33374437-20200727110417

Considering Maddy Thorson is non-binary and often tweets heavily about trans rights issues, having supported a Celeste community donation stream today for the trans lifeline (they also donated 500$ to the trans lifeline), as well as the fact that the game's themes of depression and anxiety are very personal to Thorson I would say Madeline is 100% trans.

A lot of people just don't wanna hear it because it doesn't conform to what they want. The struggles of depression and anxiety are universal, yes, but that street goes both ways. A cis person's struggles with them may very well be different from a trans person's. But it goes the other way too. A trans person's will be different too, but the very core of suffering from them is the point of the game. While people will forever deny that Madeline is trans, despite the fact her creator is trans and the person who voices her is trans, it's sad to see in the end how many of you react so horribly to the very concept that she is trans. To the point where it's hidden on the wiki in its own tab under "CONTROVERSY" as if being transgender is a controversial things despite the fact the lead developer who made the fucking game is, unsurprisingly, a transgender person.

Things like the flags in Madeline's room point to that she is trans. Because no cisgendered heterosexual person, no matter how much of an ally they are, will have these kinds of flags in their BEDROOMS. Even more, why would Madeline have the very specific trans pride flag when most allies would probably only have the generic gay pride flag? Of course, this all boils down to the inherent transphobia in a lot of people who play Celeste.

Madeline's journey is universal until she's trans. All of a sudden, the game's themes are meaningless because she's no longer viewed through the lens of being cis. Depression, anxiety, feelings of self loathing and inadequecy are fairly common things in a lot of trans people. The idea that Madeline herself doesn't like photos initially or the very fact that Badeline breaks out of a mirror? The idea that Badeline harasses her by saying that "You'll never be a real MOUNTAIN CLIMBER" is the time old transphobic thing slung at trans people. "You'll never be a real woman, so just give it up."

A lot of you all say that gender is 100% meaningless in this game. Okay. Then why do you bring it up at all? If gender is meaningless, then why can't Madeline be trans? You all say it yourselves. The themes are universal. So if Madeline is trans, then what changes? What changes between her being cis or trans? The only thing that changes is that it adds on the other layers of what could be the core reason that drives her deep seated feelings of self loathing.

In general, the causes for people's mental health issues aren't always going to be the same. Someone might not have the same feelings of self loathing as Madeline, but suffer depression and anxiety anyway, and they can still relate to Madeline's journey. If trans people are forced to relate entirely to cis characters 99% of the time, why do you all have a problem with relating to a trans character this 1% of the time? If Madeline's gender doesn't matter... then why do you all spend so much time defending the idea she MUST be cis and not trans? If it doesn't matter, then her being trans shouldn't either and shouldn't impact your enjoyment of the game, right?

Oh. No. Wait I forgot. Trans people bad. Can't have that in our viddy game, can we?

The likelihood of Madeline being trans is extremely high. People beg for subtletly with LGBT characters in media. Why? Because subtley means you can ignore it. If it's overt, then you complainb that it's being "shoved down your throats."

While anyone, on their own, who suffers from depression or anxiety can relate to Celeste as a whole, most people also have other avenues to relate to. Trans people? Not so much. Media isn't tailored much for trans people. A majority of media with trans people in them are made BY trans people. So Celeste can be viewed through that lens. A story that trans people can more readily identify with, while cis people can too, but the core struggles can be heavily related to by trans players.

If the entire point of the game is Thorson's personal journey with mental health struggles, and then after the game's release they come out as non-binary? Yeah there's most definitely themes of being transgender inherently woven into the game itself. People write what they know most and in this game which is heavily personal to Thorson? Just use your critical thinking skills for more than two minutes and stop being bigoted.

Madeline being trans does nothing to you if you truly care about the themes of mental illness. If your opinion is skewed by the idea of Madeline being trans? If that is controversial? Then you never really cared about those themes in the first place.